Curse

Navaros · Oct 09, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

more and more people are moving to pvp from pve.

I disagree with this. I've been playing PVP for a long time now and I've noticed that PVP numbers seem to have dropped drastically from where they were before.

Nowadays pretty much every time I get to the Hall, or even on most maps before the Hall, everyone knows everyone else. There are so few players in Tombs that that sort of thing is possible. If Guild Wars had masses and masses of PVP players in Tombs, then this would not be the case.

Here is what I think happened: people got bored and moved on to other games.

My estimation goes like this:

PVE'ers got bored because there is not much reward for PVEing considering that drop rates for real players are really horrible for the sake of discouraging botters. Very little point to continue playing the game if they can't get any worthwhile loot because of this, and since Fissure armor for most people is far too expensive to ever bother trying for.

To add insult to injury, the devs keep putting off fixing the trade interface even though that is definitely the number 1 glaring game-breaking problem with Guild Wars; hence it's usually impossible to sell anything for a decent price because there is no good way for connecting to a buyer for what you want to sell.

Also, 8 players alone in an instance gets boring. That is not enough players to sustain long-term interest in a gameworld to the same extent that real MMORPGs are able to do because they are not limited by instancing.

Hardcore PVPers got bored because they are always fighting the same few Guilds over and over again in Tombs. And also because ultimately there is no point whatsoever to winning HoH because all the item drops in it are usually 100% worthless crap, sigils are worth little more than chump change, and there is no fame reward bonus. What then is the compelling reason to hold the Hall? There is none. Most players seem to have realized that and stopped trying.

Casual PVPers got bored because they have no chance whatsoever of having any success in Tombs unless a good Guild happens to take them under their wing, or they grind in horribly-bad losing parties until they eventually scrape out 1000 fame from it.

In conclusion: devs really need to vastly fix and improve PVE and PVP rewards to sustain long-term interest in Guild Wars. And finding a way remove instancing or at least allow for much larger gameplay-based instances that are not played out in cramped, claustrophobic arenas would certainly help.

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I think judging from most of the posts that alot of people enjoyed the game but have played it out. Nothing wrong with that, as it will eventually happen....just seems a little sooner with GW, which is why I always wondered why everyone is in such a rush.

I don't have a doubt that most everyone who plays will pick up Chapter 2, maybe a price drop in chapter one for new users right before.

Sayshina · Oct 09, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

You know, Sayshina, I have seen a lot of posts by people like you. Pissed that UAS is no longer an option and Ohh no that cap sigs are new, waaaaaa.

Well, if you complained less, you would have fully unlocked your account by now. It doesn't take that long.

Maybe you are just pissed that Fertil Season does not stack...

So, good luck, find yourself a new game. Those of us that are up for real competition...

This is a very common sentiment among the carebears, and it ultimatly boils down to "if you don't agree with me, you're a whiner".

"Would have fully unlocked..."? Nonsense. First off, it assumes that I could actualy stomach doing that much PvE, something I NEVER signed up for. Secondly, it assumes that I have the sort of free time that only teenagers with no responsibilities have. I don't happen to be a teenager, and there are pesky things like house payments to think about, along with the 2 jobs needed to pay them.

Fertile season? I'm terribly sorry to pee on your assumption, but I quit before the spirit spamming became a big deal. I've heard about it, but never experienced it myself. That was a good try on your part though, attempting to imply that I was just another nooblet whining about a nerf.

"Find yourself a new game"? That's just another variation of your first point, "if you don't like things the way I like them, leave".

"Those of us that are up for real competition"? Come on, do you really think the competition has gotten better? Fianna was clearly one of the best guilds around. They were also a guild of the week, and were even featured in a print magazine. War Machine was not exactly a bunch of noobs, and while LOTD really did flame the hell out of Gaile, they knew how to play.

All of the above guilds were very good, and none of them was particularly into cookie cutter builds. You can't possibly think that the level of competition will not suffer from the loss of so many skilled players.

Face facts. The competition is terrible now. What you mean by "real competition" is "Me and my noob friends have a chance now that all the good players have gone away".

For the record: During the beta's you could get most elite skills from trainers. The few you still couldn't get could be gambled from the charm merchant, but even that wasn't enough to really lite PvP on fire. The reason the implemented UAS was because PvP was lagging behind, and it worked. PvP took off, and the environment was better, more diverse, and the level of competition was vastly better than it has been at any point before or after. In other words, UAS worked. Call it a beta trick if you wish, but you cannot argue with it's success.

I have never demanded, or even requested UAS. I didn't actualy make use of it during the beta's, as it was easy enough to get to the trainers and at the time it seemed important to nail down a strategy on which trainers to get to in what order.

We WERE lied to. You claim we were never promised UAS, and you base your entire arguement around that, as though as long as that's true your entire premise is unimpeachable. Bill Clinton never actualy had sex with Monica, mainly because in his mind a BJ didn't count. So he never REALLY cheated, and therefore he never lied about it.

Just because they never promised us UAS doesn't mean they never lied to us. Very few of you were there, and yet you claim to know the facts of the case. There were many conversations with the dev's, lots of late night questions and lots of hints, with even the occasional answer. Nobody ever promised UAS, but nobody ever even hinted at the skill capping nightmare either. We talked about them, and there was a basic understanding that skills would be quickly available, with not the slightest hint that this entire area of the game was being radicaly altered. This was an area of real concern to PvP players, as we did NOT want to be required to PvE, and we told them as much many times. This was a very important issue to the PvP community during the beta's, and we made it very clear we had no interest in being forced to PvE. I remember many conversations where the basic message from the dev's was "don't worry, we're not going to screw you".

The second the game went into release the dev's dissappeared, and all we were left with was Gaile. While it's dificult to prove what was in the minds of Anet, I and many other PvP beta's believe they deliberatly misled us to inflate their opening sales figures. There is no way they could not have known we would not be happy with the changes, so the only possible reason to keep them so secret is to mislead us into buying a product we had gone to great pains to tell them we wouldn't want. If that doesn't constitute a lie, could you please explain to me your logic? Perhaps you belong to the Bill Clinton school of relative truths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Insulting a game rep is really immature and pretty useless to boot

I said she was the worst CSR I have ever met. How is that "immature"? I did not lie, nor did I exagerate. Certainly, it's a subjective oppinion, but I stated it subjectively. She is clearly biased, and has only ever served one side of the community.

She is not doing her job, as her job would entail serving the ENTIRE player base, not just the portion she happens to like. She has in the past hinted to mods on at least one forum that she thought a given thread was "over the line", making it clear she was hoping the mod would practice a bit of censorship. For a game rep to do something like this is extreemly unprofessional, and not particularly ethical either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Well, it's 10pm EDT and districts 1, 2, 3, and 4 are full in tombs. oh, yes! Nobody plays anymore!

I assume you're being sarcastic here, and expect you actualy think 4 full districts makes for a vibrant environment. Someone pointed out that most tombs players know each other as soon as they meet. How many people could you keep track of, 1,000? Diablo2 is 5 years old, and there are 53,710 players in game, right this second. I have asked this before, but why is it that Anet never releases these sorts of figures? They sure do like telling us how much of a success this game is, and talk vaguely about "active accounts", but why won't they back up their talk? Whenever I see vague reassurances with no numbers, my BS alarm starts going off like crazy. But that's just me.

I will never again buy any product made by any of the dev's associated with this game. I will never spend money on any product from Anet or NCsoft, and it all comes down to a simple premise: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They lied to us, they lied to me specificaly. I don't care if the finished product is something you love, or if the changes are all seen as improvments by you. That in no way changes the fact that they lied to me. I'm not talking about marketing, I'm talking about specific conversations, and specific reassurances. They could have been honest with us before we spent our money, but they were well aware that we would not buy it. They made a conscious decision NOT to tell us the truth, KNOWING we would not want to wait for reviews and risk being left behind. They clearly hoped we would buy the product BEFORE we found out the truth. They LIED to us. The fact that many of you think the proper answer to this is to just shut up and go away, and write it all off, only proves that you don't earn your own money.

If Anet didn't want to hear any complaints they should have thought twice about lying to us.

NekoZ · Oct 09, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I know I will get the typical flame from this but I really don't care. ANet has the uncontrollable will to nerf any creative build someone creates. Someone can solo the UW OMGIEZ END OF THE WORLD. Being able to solo got be back into the game, actually being able to get some good drops for yourself. I know their intent is complete team play but look at some of the people you are in a party with. No common sense, no team work whatsoever. I would have so much fun, and I do, playing the game solo. But I guess it is a sin in this game.

And PvP, I am just really getting into (besides GvG, used to always do that) and it is pretty fun. But my old guild has maybe 3 people left out of the 50 that were once there. So unless I find a good guild I doubt I will ever even try HoH.

PieXags · Oct 09, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by INFERNO2K

I played religiously from April through till the end of September. With just under 10 characters on my account I had played with, multiple level 20's with perfect armor.

I am bored of the game, I uninstalled it and currently am playing Day of Defeat Source. I am also rather busy this semester with college.

Guild Wars was a great game, but the end content is null.

I'm writing you on my good list. Day of Defeat: Source = wicked game.

Chev of Hardass · Oct 09, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Compeition is not Spirit Spamming. Is not Smiting. Is not turning the auto-fire on Putrid, setting auto follow and walking away to find you team won from your amazing Putrid spamming abilities. Is not stacking Fertile Season and going Healing ball untill the other team gives up from boredom.

Competition is being beat by player skill, not by a combination of skills that are obviously overpowered. Yes, we loose, but we loose to Guilds that use the terrain and their build effectively. If they do not use both, we win.

Call us noobs? Fine, we stepped into compedative PvP play later than you (the almighty, obviously!! and thanks for even responding to such a newb), but I call you unable to adapt and overcome, unable to learn new tricks, and convinced that the Guilds that were top in Beta are the only ones around that are capable of competition. Well F them. They are probably in Beta on a new game, or the next chapter. Or they got pissed when they made overpowered skills counterable, and found out that any n00b guild can crush them with a well balanced build and some teamwork.

You we're lied to? So, was I. My mommy told me that I was special. Now go find me where they said that the game would not change for release.

Ohh and I am 26, spent 5 years in the Marine Corps, call me a child and I will point you to my men that died in war.

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

I'm writing you on my good list. Day of Defeat: Source = wicked game.

It is a fun 'pick up and play' game I agree. Perfect for those long 12 hour work days...a nice nitecap to unwind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Ohh and I am 26, spent 5 years in the Marine Corps, call me a child and I will point you to my men that died in war.

hmmm... Not intended to be disrespectful, but what has that got to do with GW?
I don't think that is cool at all, sorry but I think that was a cheap shot on your part.

Chev of Hardass · Oct 09, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

Secondly, it assumes that I have the sort of free time that only teenagers with no responsibilities have. I don't happen to be a teenager, and there are pesky things like house payments to think about, along with the 2 jobs needed to pay them.

Gee, sounds like it is assumed that I am a child, that does not know the ways of the world.

I have learned that cheap shots deserve other cheap shots. Congradulations.

sino-soviet · Oct 09, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

I think this whole school issue is just bullshit. I refuse to believe that all guild wars players in high school or college spent all of their time studying. Even if this was summertime, the popularity would be the same.

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I think this whole school issue is just bullshit. I refuse to believe that all guild wars players in high school or college spent all of their time studying. Even if this was summertime, the popularity would be the same.

Indeed, I bow to your wisdom sino. Since when has school ever been an excuse for low population numbers? Maybe a PR rep can sell that school is a factor shiznit, but I'm not buyin.. And I'm sure I don't need to say that summer time is actually a slow period in the game biz. People are out having fun in the sun.

Kai Nui · Oct 09, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

You imbecile fool. You spelled 'everyone' as 'every1.'

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

You imbecile fool. You spelled 'everyone' as 'every1.'

Whoa you might wanna stop drinkin that PBR.

cunninghambone · Oct 11, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

This game gets old too quick, that's why no one plays anymore.

Mormegil · Oct 11, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cunninghambone

This game gets old too quick, that's why no one plays anymore.

Oh yeah, you cant wield roxxors weapons to uberl337 pwnzor the n00bz in PvE, but you have to use your brain instead of grinding your way up. Less kiddies here, more adult people. Nice deal to me, I see nothing bad in it.

Not to totally ruin this thread, but unofficial player figures in GW and WoW had a ratio of 1.5:1 after Sorrow's Furnace, and recently players dropped in every MMOrpg - school is hitting hard those poor l337 kids.

Dax · Oct 11, 2005, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Oh yeah, you cant wield roxxors weapons to uberl337 pwnzor the n00bz in PvE, but you have to use your brain instead of grinding your way up. Less kiddies here, more adult people. Nice deal to me, I see nothing bad in it.

I know many people who think GW- a half assed MMO for people who don't have what it takes to play a hardcore MMO., they just wanna be uber ...not me though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Not to totally ruin this thread, but unofficial player figures in GW and WoW had a ratio of 1.5:1 after Sorrow's Furnace, and recently players dropped in every MMOrpg - school is hitting hard those poor l337 kids.

How unofficial is that, as in made up?

Mormegil · Oct 11, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

I know many people who think GW- a half assed MMO for people who don't have what it takes to play a hardcore MMO., they just wanna be uber ...not me though

GW has the best MMO PvP ever. Period. PvE is so and so, I'll give you that, and people who don't want to use their brain/don't like the competition will only play PvE and get bored after a while. You all fail to notice, though, that this game has no monthly fees, so there's nothing bad in not playing for, say, 1 month and then getting back when some new content is out.

WoW is a grinding machine, EQ2 is a grinding machine, Lineage 2 is the house of frustration. If you had 45 l337 items to get in GW instead of, maybe, 12 or 15, or 50 levels instead of 20, the little number of PvEers leaving would shrink. But hey, people actually like the feeling of grinding and "earning" your level-ups, that little number changing from 59 to 60.

I don't blame them, but I'm one of those weird guys who want to have fun while playing a videogame.

Dax · Oct 11, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

GW has the best MMO PvP ever. Period. PvE is so and so, I'll give you that, and people who don't want to use their brain/don't like the competition will only play PvE and get bored after a while. You all fail to notice, though, that this game has no monthly fees, so there's nothing bad in not playing for, say, 1 month and then getting back when some new content is out.

WoW is a grinding machine, EQ2 is a grinding machine, Lineage 2 is the house of frustration. If you had 45 l337 items to get in GW instead of, maybe, 12 or 15, or 50 levels instead of 20, the little number of PvEers leaving would shrink. But hey, people actually like the feeling of grinding and "earning" your level-ups, that little number changing from 59 to 60.

I don't blame them, but I'm one of those weird guys who want to have fun while playing a videogame.

While I wouldn't argue somewhat, I was just trying to make the point that people (meaning I can be just as guilty) often make the mistake of characterizing a group of gamers because they play this game or that.

I think the word grinding is all relative, and of all the MMO's you pointed out the only one I think has a grind is Lineage2. I'm not sure people appreciate how many things GW does to water down the gameplay and make it so much easier. Granted WoW is pretty simple too.

In so far as strategy, once again it's all relative. One could say that in GW there is strategy, but it's pretty limited for one purpose. Strategy in a MMO is not limited to PvP, so in that respect one could disagree.

Also I think many of the sediments about leaving were from PvP players as well... though I wouldn't know I find PvP repedative and boring so I don't play it often.

There are lots of people who 'enjoy' gaming and choose GW, WoW, or L2 . I'm not going to fault them for that.... I say the more MMOs the better.
GW is limited so people shouldn't be surprised if a few people leave, they will be back for chapter 2.

ratatass · Oct 12, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Yes I think those numbers are lying. Friends lists is as grey and dull as ever....

I just stumbled across something here. Charles Ensign is smart. But man, what a name he chose for his guild. It is brilliant!!![/SIZE]

IDIOT SAVANTS (IQ).

What is an idiot savant?
Current research theories show that intelligence is non-local and not bound to the brain. Sometimes nature offers insight into a particular subject by presenting a baffling enigma and contradictory example. Intelligence's contradictory enigma is the idiot-savant.

The word idiot usually refers to a simpleton, in contrast to the word "savant" in French that means "learned one." Idiot savants are a subgroup of a class of people called idiots with an IQ of about 25.

Idiot savants are a group of humans that are incapable of learning, writing or reading, yet they have unlimited access to specific, accurate knowledge in the fields of mathematics, music, and other precise areas. Now the irony of an idiot-savant is that this group of individuals does not acquire knowledge by learning as the average human does. They mysteriously 'know' explicit, exact, correct information. One may wonder: "How do idiots savants know certain information or possess certain skills?" By whatever means they obtain this information, they undermine current definitions about intelligence. Does their knowledge show that a source of intelligence exists? Is it possible to tap into this source and not know of its existence?
Dustin Hoffman made idiot-savants famous in the Hollywood movie "Rain Man." He played the role of a mathematical genius able to keep track of cards at the casino, yet unable to go to the bathroom alone or to make simple decisions about what clothes to wear or foods to eat. Modern science cannot explain this phenomenon.

Ensign you are just brilliant. Who cares you couldn't name the correct isotopes and definitions in Uranium Enrichment of U238.

Thanks Charles you made my day...

Ratatass

Anarkii · Oct 12, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

true but they had a lot of fun before boredom set in for some.

count on them coming back for a second helping when chapter 2 comes out.

Aye. Leena Nightshade will be back...where she belongs

I've been out of the game for over 2 months...after spending 12 hours a day for 3 months

Numa Pompilius · Oct 12, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

No offence, guys, but this entire thread is based on speculation and hearsay.

Before you start to investigate WHY player numbers have dropped, perhaps you should first determine IF they have dropped?

Personally I don't think player numbers have dropped a lot recently, still seems to be plenty of people around on the euro servers when I play. This on EU servers, I don't know how it is in the US.

One way of estimating how many are playing, is by looking at number of districts.
In the EU, Ascalon still has 7-8 English-speaking districts, same as always.
I went to Tombs yesterday (wednesday evening), and there were 12 districts.

You can compare that to the international district, where everything but the botting-spots (notably Augury Rock) have 1 district.